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Author Topic: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast  (Read 161597 times)

Offline najak

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #600 on: January 05, 2025, 01:25:41 PM »
Stop whining about being silenced and have the discussions you claim to want. People have responded to your points so deal with that instead of posting walls of text about how badly you’re being treated and suggesting were paid shills for NASA.
3 of the 4 topics have been brought to full closure.

Only the A12 Dish Flinging is still being discussed.

I have more threads to raise, which may have a good chance of also being non-debunkable... which either makes LO uneasy, or breaks a contract he has with NASA.  I can't figure out the reason for this insecurity associated with Apollo...   I even have the mandate to call you TD's (Truth Defenders)... how does this look to you?  Neutral, or biased?


Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #601 on: January 05, 2025, 01:33:25 PM »
I have more threads to raise, which may have a good chance of also being non-debunkable... which either makes LO uneasy, or breaks a contract he has with NASA.  I can't figure out the reason for this insecurity associated with Apollo...   I even have the mandate to call you TD's (Truth Defenders)... how does this look to you?  Neutral, or biased?

It looks like you being held to reasonable standards of discussion. You have had this explained over and over and over again. You keep on trying to throw more stuff at the wall before you have finished discussing the previous points. There is no insecurity, but as I have said, there is literally decades of experience of people doing exactly what you are doing and it is unbelievably tiresome.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #602 on: January 05, 2025, 01:54:34 PM »
I have two arguments outstanding that seem like GOOD arguments...  8 flag motions, and the Apollo 12 Dish flinging.   I have MORE -- but am being silenced by the biased management of this forum.

You've made almost as many posts in two months as I have in thirteen years... but somehow I'm silencing you.  ::)

I have explained many times why I placed the "no new topics" restriction on you. You are being held responsible for your claims. You want to flood the forum with so many claims that it makes us look incapable of disputing them all... so I'm putting the brakes on. You will defend the claims you have made until we are all satisfied that there is nothing more to say, and then we can move on to your other topics.

If you do not like this, you are free to start your own forum.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 01:57:20 PM by LunarOrbit »
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #603 on: January 05, 2025, 02:00:47 PM »
Those two lack merit too, you're just not capable of accepting it yet.
For the 8 flag motions - please tell me where my claim is "lacking merit".   There are still ZERO counter-claims that anyone will even try to defend under scrutiny.  This one remains fully undebunked, for an extremely simple context of Flags Untouched in a vacuum -- being gently pushed towards the LM and held there for up to 15 seconds at a time.

I believe the explanation that the flag movements coincide with venting from the LM makes sense. You have provided no counter argument to satisfactorily dispute it, you have merely dismissed it as "not viable".
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline najak

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #604 on: January 05, 2025, 02:56:50 PM »
I believe the explanation that the flag movements coincide with venting from the LM makes sense. You have provided no counter argument to satisfactorily dispute it, you have merely dismissed it as "not viable".
If you want to stand by this, under scrutiny, please re-open the thread which pertains to this, and we can discuss.   That thread went off topic (like this one), because NOBODY would stand by their claim under scrutiny.

Since you seem to think this claim makes sense -- let's re-scrutinize it, and see how you explain that "it makes sense"...  So far, no one else will champion this, because the TD defense unquestionably falls apart.

In short, there has been NO WAY to justify the 5 motions TOWARDS THE LM.  Attempts were:
1. It swung back like a pendulum.
2. The pole itself did 360's...
3. The pole was leaning towards the LM, and so "resting position was on-screen"

Do you have something new to suggest?  Or do you want to champion any of these already-failed theories?  I'd be happy to re-debunk these claims for you.

#1 and #2 are too easy -- the motion onto the screen is steady/slow, holds steady for 5-15 seconds at a time... so CLEARLY is NOT a pendulum motion, nor a 360 swinging motion.

Only #3 merits some discussion - and so I addressed it in my doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KnnsXE97fKJZ-CJYv7j_G9eVdgwW960LUeOCGz5uarE/edit?usp=sharing

See page 2.

So there is the "scrutiny" - perhaps you'd like to explain how this scrutiny can be explained away.  So far, no one will even attempt it.   Perhaps you can be the first.

Otherwise, that thread is "DONE" - not because I don't want to discuss it, but because nobody else has anything to say against the scrutiny.


Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #605 on: January 05, 2025, 03:01:36 PM »
I have unlocked the flag thread. Defend your claim and stay on topic, or I will lock it again.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline najak

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #606 on: January 05, 2025, 03:03:32 PM »
You want to flood the forum with so many claims that it makes us look incapable of disputing them all... so I'm putting the brakes on.
I joined Nov 22nd, made 5 threads total-- and you put the brakes on, Nov 24th..   6 weeks ago.

I'd like to introduce a couple more threads, and drive them to completion, as we have with the prior ones.   I have legitimate sincere desire for TRUTH here... not a meaningless Gish Gallop.   I HATE bad arguments, and makes me sick when I see MLH videos/links using bad arguments (which is the majority of them).

So I'm only trying to investigate the ones that I truly/sincerely think might hold weight.

Offline najak

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #607 on: January 05, 2025, 03:09:23 PM »
I have unlocked the flag thread. Defend your claim and stay on topic, or I will lock it again.
Thank you.  But if no one wants to discuss it, I'd recommend leaving it open - but just not talking about anything else.

Speaking of "off track" - -can we consider THIS thread "concluded" as well?   Leave it open, in case someone much later wants to comment, but for now, there is no more discussion to be had.  I have withdrawn my claim that the Lunar Launches are Too Fast.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #608 on: January 05, 2025, 03:15:40 PM »
You want to flood the forum with so many claims that it makes us look incapable of disputing them all... so I'm putting the brakes on.
I joined Nov 22nd, made 5 threads total-- and you put the brakes on, Nov 24th..   6 weeks ago.

And you've still made over 800 posts in that time.

Quote
I'd like to introduce a couple more threads, and drive them to completion, as we have with the prior ones.   I have legitimate sincere desire for TRUTH here... not a meaningless Gish Gallop.   I HATE bad arguments, and makes me sick when I see MLH videos/links using bad arguments (which is the majority of them).

So I'm only trying to investigate the ones that I truly/sincerely think might hold weight.

NO. This is the last time I will say it. You will defend your existing claims until we are all satisfied that there is nothing else to say. I am not going to let you waste the time of the other members of the forum with a flood of claims that you will not defend.

If you continue to argue this with me I will ban you.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Mag40

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #609 on: January 05, 2025, 03:28:11 PM »
Speaking of "off track" - -can we consider THIS thread "concluded" as well?   Leave it open, in case someone much later wants to comment, but for now, there is no more discussion to be had.  I have withdrawn my claim that the Lunar Launches are Too Fast.
Coward. You ran away from the dust thread and now you want to avoid rebuttal to your now crappy claims on this thread!

I want to point out something quite significant that has had an utterly useless "explanation" provided. The whole Apollo 17 launch seen was part of continued footage from the moment the rover was parked. It involved considerable activity in and around the LM with the identical background. Schmitt throws a hammer and we even see it glint as it reaches zenith.

I cannot understand how any reasonable person can look at that and not see how ridiculous it would be to fake that in 1972.
You do realise that debate works both ways don't you? You present your claim, it get answered then counter-claim. you've run away from counter claims in the dust thread, are you going to do the same here?

I detailed one of them above where we see astronauts walking around the identical LM and backdrop on Apollo 17. Well, it didn't occur to me that Apollo 16 would also provide such clear and obvious evidence. But oh does it ever!

Activity around the final rover spot and camera zooms to LM - astronaut approaches LM:
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/static/history/alsj/a16/a16v.1704507.mpg

This is the one - activity around the LM that if najak says is faked, then it shows he really is delusional:
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/static/history/alsj/a16/a16v.1704820.mpg

Static camera activity continues:
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/static/history/alsj/a16/a16v.1705138.mpg

Offline TimberWolfAu

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #610 on: January 05, 2025, 07:55:31 PM »
Like Lunar Orbit here, Rasa also uses his home-court advantage to employ biases in favor of MLH.

Rasa is nothing like LO. I have yet to see anyone here say that they have had posts/comments deleted, simply because they showed where LO (or someone else posting) was wrong. Rasa, however, and the other mods, routinely hide/delete comments/posts that show they are incorrect in their statements. Even something as simple as Rasa claiming person X is in a photo, when in reality it was person Y, comments correcting him will get removed.

Offline najak

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Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Reply #611 on: January 05, 2025, 08:01:35 PM »
Rasa is nothing like LO. I have yet to see anyone here say that they have had posts/comments deleted, simply because they showed where LO (or someone else posting) was wrong. Rasa, however, and the other mods, routinely hide/delete comments/posts that show they are incorrect in their statements. Even something as simple as Rasa claiming person X is in a photo, when in reality it was person Y, comments correcting him will get removed.
No comment. :)  Rasa and I haven't always been on the best of terms, as he threatened to ban me a few times as well, for correcting the way they truth TD's (Truth Defenders!).

I tried to convince Rasa, to no avail, to create a Neutral zone, and to treat TD's as our friends, not "trolls".  I do think he changed his behavior considerably after me hounding him in private, and expressing my rationale for making things more neutral.   I've noticed a change...

But still, if anyone comes to Rasa's FB, I'll be nice, and encourage others to do the same.

Neutral debate forums - that's my biggest desire.  In the end -- We Are One.   We're all in this together.